Laryssa Wirstiuk  00:08

Welcome to the ‘Joy Joya’ Podcast, where jewellery is joy and everyone is encouraged to add more polish and sparkle to the world with topics ranging from marketing tips to business development, best practices and beyond. This is the go-to podcast for ambitious jewellery industry dreamers like you. 

Hi, I’m your host Laryssa Wirstiuk. Through this podcast, I aim to empower and inspire jewellery entrepreneurs and professionals, so they can thrive while adding more beauty to the world. I’m passionate about digital marketing for jewellery brands and I’m excited to share my passion with you. As we all know jewellery is a joy, so I’ll gladly seize any opportunity to talk about it.  

This is episode 173 and today I’m going to be sharing my interview with Dana Bronfman, a New York City-based modern fine jewellery designer who’s best known for her quietly bold aesthetic. Dana works with a small team of master jewellers in New York to create each piece from reclaimed and fair mined gold, as well as carefully chosen responsibly sourced diamonds and gemstones. She’s also been a fair-minded licensee since 2016. Dana is considered a leader in responsible sourcing in the industry, and she regularly contributes to industry conversations on the topic. In this episode, we chat all about responsible material sourcing and jewellery making. It’s actually one of the most requested topics I get from listeners and viewers. Dana is a true gem in the industry and I’m really excited to share this conversation with you. But before we get to the solid gold of this episode, I’d like to take a moment to remind you that this podcast has both an audio and video component. So you can either listen on your favourite podcast platform or watch on YouTube by searching ‘Joy Joya’, I love creating this content as my act of service to you my awesome listeners and you can support the podcast for free by taking the time not only to subscribe but also to leave a rating or review on iTunes which helps other jewellery dreamers find it too. 

In this segment of the podcast, I give out my sparkle award for the week. During this segment, I highlight a jewellery brand that’s impressing me with its marketing. The sparkle award is also interactive so you can visit sparkleaward.com to nominate a jewellery brand that’s inspiring you these days, I might feature your submission on a future podcast episode. So this week’s sparkle Award winner is the Brooklyn based jewellery retailer cat bird’. They recently announced this really interesting collaboration that caught my eye called ‘Catbird and vetoes gems’. I was so intrigued by this, that I saw it in an email marketing campaign. I had to go to their website and learn more. So I’ll basically just read you the little blurb about it from their website because it explains it best. So this collaborative collection is an ode to the luminous life of a quintessential New Yorker. 

Vito G Alo 91-year-old artist, Illustrator and antiques dealer was Andy Warhol’s first apprentice and the first to give Warhol a show in 1954. Vito’s antique shop across from the Carlyle at 966 Madison Avenue was a destination for Mark Rothko, Andre Leon Talley, Greta Garbo, Robert Mapplethorpe, Jackie Kennedy and Andy Warhol, who visited every day. This is a really interesting part of the story. So in 1969, Vito came into possession of a trunk full of gems, and other than selling a few to Andy. He has saved them since then. 53 years later, we are so proud to present ‘catbird and Vito gems’, a collection of limited edition and one of a kind jewels, inspired by vitos New York nights at the ballet, Joseph Cornell boxes antiquities of Venetian mirrors his erstwhile shop on Madison Ave at the end of the day, Martini at Bemelmans bar, museum vitrines an arc that connects the past to the present.  I think this is such an amazing example of storytelling connected to jewellery, and really getting customers excited and intrigued by the product. This is a quote from Vito himself, “I am pleased to know that my gems will continue to be treasured and valued and live on. Objects have personalities and when I first saw them littered in the apartment, they felt like survivors to me.” 

So I definitely encourage you to check out this new collaboration between catbird and Vito. As I mentioned, I think it’s a really cool example of storytelling by assigning lore to jewellery, and I was really inspired and intrigued by it. As I mentioned, you can visit sparkleaward.com to nominate a jewellery brand that’s inspiring you these days and I might feature your submission on a future podcast episode. Let’s discuss some recent news related to jewellery and marketing. Each week I share my thoughts about three relevant articles and you can get those links by visiting JoyJoya.com/signup. Once you’re on the VIP list, you’ll receive our weekly digest filled with new episode announcements. 

The first article is from morning brew and it’s all about how meta, Facebook’s parent company, is opening its first real-life brick and mortar store. So meta announced their plans to open the meta store which is their first brick and mortar retail space and it’s going to be located in the Burlingame, California campus. It shows that not everything can be web three and in the metaverse. Even though meta is all about augmented reality and virtual reality, they are still opening a brick and mortar store because they know that customers still enjoy the experience of trying products in person. Mark Zuckerberg says in this article, “The best way to understand virtual reality is to experience it.” A little bit strange and interesting. This store is set to open right when this podcast episode comes out on May 9, and it will stock products like Metis quest to VR headset, Portal video calling device and RayBan sunglasses. You might think this has nothing to do with the jewellery industry. But I’m just sharing this as an example that consumers still really do prefer that in-person brick and mortar experience, especially when it’s related to a high tech product. 

The next article also comes from morning brew, and it is called the majority of shoppers want brand values to align with their own according to a survey. A new 1000 person Harris Poll survey commissioned by Google Cloud reveals that 82% of consumers say they do want to buy from brands with values that align with their own. Among those top values are definitely sustainability and transparency, those are the things that consumers are searching for. 52% of respondents said they want to support sustainable brands, 66% seek out eco-friendly businesses, and 55% say they would pay more to shop from these types of brands. However, the survey found that 72% of respondents believe that companies and brands are overstating their sustainability efforts. And there’s a reason why I chose this article to come at the beginning of this interview with Dana because it’s something we definitely chat about in this episode. The only thing that can really overcome brand value for consumers is brand availability. So an overwhelming 98% of shoppers said they’d either buy from a different brand or search another channel if the one they preferred wasn’t in stock to overcome these hurdles. Fantino, VP of consumer packaged goods at Google clouds, suggests that “personalizing outreach to consumers through data collection clearly and transparently communicating values and sustainability goals and rewarding shoppers for their loyalty are always to really appeal to what consumers want today.” 

The last article about UPS is perhaps a sign of the state of E-commerce. So retail dive reported that UPS encounters an unexpected drop in personal volume as e-commerce growth slows. So now that COVID is subsiding, people are returning to their in-person activities and work-life, and UPS is seeing a decline in packages showing perhaps that e-commerce growth is slowing. It’s something that I’ve definitely seen with my clients this year in the first quarter. Clients who either have an E-commerce channel supplemental to their brick and mortar channel or are primarily e-commerce saw major growth in 2021 but now they’re levelling out or even seeing a slight decline from first quarter 2021 numbers. So that’s definitely in line with what UPS is seeing factors such as no more stimulus checks, inflation and higher energy prices are hitting consumers’ pockets unfortunately, they’re spending less on goods and more on things like experiences and services, including travel and leisure. Is this something that you’ve also been noticing in your e-commerce channel? 

As I mentioned, if you want to get the links to the articles I share in this segment of the podcast, you can become a Joy Joya VIP by visiting JoyJoya.com/signup. Without further delay, let’s get to my interview with Dana.

Hi, Dana, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. I’m really excited to have you as a guest.

Dana Bronfman 11:00

I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Laryssa Wirstiuk  11:03

So please tell our listeners about your journey. How did you get started in the jewellery industry, and how has it evolved over time?

Dana Bronfman 11:12

I got into the jewellery industry randomly. It was not something that I knew anyone who did jewellery or related to jewellery while growing up. I didn’t know about it until I was in college. I studied Spanish and I had the opportunity to travel around a lot with that. I always found myself so fascinated by the local jewellery that I saw everywhere. I had seen traditional fine jewellery growing up and didn’t like it. I didn’t get my ears pierced till I was 17 and that was because I wanted to wear fashion type jewellery. I never liked why people were into pearl necklaces, diamond studs or something that I thought was so basic and uninteresting. It was a sparkly thing. I liked the uniqueness and the design of these pieces that I saw when I was travelling and also the story behind them and the people who had made them and the fact that it was saying something that was original. 

I also loved Native American jewellery, growing up my grandmother would take me to a Native American jewellery store in the eastern Sierra when I would go visit her in the summers. And we’d spend summers in the mountains in the eastern Sierra in California. I love turquoise, I loved how interesting it was and it was a cultural story. So her jewellery was what I was into, but I didn’t know that there was anything in between those two, the fine, basic, boring, fine jewellery, and the more interesting, cultural jewellery. When I was travelling, I saw independent artists and different places. I also got the chance to travel to Santa Fe, New Mexico, with friends in college, when I was there, I discovered people who I could see myself in, even though they were totally different from me, I was like, this is something that I want to do. But it seems a pipe dream. I didn’t go into it right away because it seemed like not a realistic path and seemed like an idealistic, I was like, that would be fun but I can’t do that. So I still really wanted to do it. After a few years, I started my career in the nonprofit world and while that was great, I felt like there was a part of me that was not creatively fulfilled. I wanted to give back but I didn’t really feel like I was able to fully do that in my job in a way where I could not be at the discretion of whatever my job was or what the organization had funding for just appealing to the donors. So I found the Revere Academy of jewellery Arts, which is sadly not happening anymore but I’m really glad that I got in when I did. So after a few years, I still wanted to study jewellery, I went back and learned how to make jewellery in that course and I was the only person in my class that had never made a piece of jewellery before. Everybody was going there to brush up their skills and I learned a lot really fast, classes eventually took me to New York. I thought I was just going to come here temporarily and then move back to the Bay Area but one opportunity led to another. My jeweller now that whom I work super closely with is, he was my teacher of the classes that I took when I moved to New York. So it just evolved naturally and I surprised myself at how much I was inspired here and realized that I could make this career happen for myself here.

Laryssa Wirstiuk  15:31

It’s so surprising to me because knowing your brand and looking at your brand, it’s amazing to think that it evolved in that way that you didn’t grow up with that background in the industry like a lot of people do with their family or something like that. So that really like blows my mind.

Dana Bronfman 15:48

Thank you. Well, what I did learn was how to be a good student and how to work hard. These were two things that I did learn while growing up. I had that drive that work ethic was sort of instilled in me from a young age. So I was able to apply that to something that I was really passionate about. And when you take work ethic and passion, passion is the thing that keeps you going because you can get burnt out by your values of being a hard worker but passion is the thing that keeps you going.

Laryssa Wirstiuk  16:27

When did the brand come into being?

Dana Bronfman 16:32

I founded the brand in 2014. I started the brand with just metal, I had pieces in sterling silver and 18 karat gold and no stones. Part of it was because I didn’t have any contacts and stones. I didn’t know anything about stones. I didn’t know how to responsibly sourced. But I was like, I can work with recycled metal and I started doing that. Eventually, I evolved the line into adding and kept meeting people. Eventually, I added diamonds to the line and then added coloured stones to the lines. So 2016 was when I did my first trade show. And I feel that was more of an official launch. I had been starting planning the line and when I first launched my website in 2014, I had a capsule collection of 12 pieces. So 2016 and 2017 were when I started working with colourful gemstones and then it’s evolved and grown since then. I learned that if I wanted to make things the way I wanted to make them, which was in a studio in New York, with a jeweller who was making things with the highest craftsmanship, which was really important to me for things to last and be high quality and also to be able to have it locally done and be able to keep an eye on everything that was done, to be able to take ownership of what the materials were and how it was being made. That was really important to me and I knew that I wasn’t gonna be able to do it in that way and try to compete on price. So I knew that I needed to go into the higher end and I learned more about being in the field, I learned more about perceived value. 

I started learning about colour gemstones and I got really into them. I really wanted to incorporate that and it’s funny because I feel like when I first moved to New York, I was really into the black and not a lot of colours. But the more I was here I felt into my artistic, creative and colourful spirit. I still wear black sometimes, but I love the colour. I love patterns and gemstones and what I love about those is that they tell a story about the Earth. They show the birthmark and unique story that is not only the culture of the that’s interesting how to describe it because it didn’t really make the connection before it’s where I liked the stones that the jewellery design of when I was travelling was culturally relevant. I liked that there’s the mark of the place where it came from the earth.

I’m not a geologist so I don’t necessarily have the skills to look at a gem and be like this emerald is from this place, although I know by experience and looking at things, I love the mark of the earth and the interesting details in stone. So I embrace the perfection of imperfection sometimes.

Laryssa Wirstiuk  20:06

What makes your brand unique in the marketplace and how would a consumer or a retailer identify you in the wild?

Dana Bronfman 20:18

The most identifiable is my Oculus design, which is a circular pattern of different sized open spaces. Some people say that it looks like Swiss cheese. I think that is the most identifiable aspect. Oculus is an architectural term for a circular opening into space. So that’s why I call that because I’m really inspired by architecture. It’s about letting the light shine through and creating different layers. It’s also the shapes, we use a lot of convex and concave shapes combined with our textures, we use matte finishes and signature textured finishes. I would say it’s also the stones, the stones I use tend to have a unique quality to them. I use a lot of cabbage Sean’s, ovals, rounds, pear and marquee shapes, but it’s not necessarily those shapes. It’s all of these details that combine it into an aesthetic, which I call quietly bold. There are a lot of pieces that everything is made to be simple and it’s casual enough to worry about every day. But it has a little element of surprise and sparkle to it, there might be something. Sometimes you’ll see a piece and you’ll see a difference, it’ll look a little different from the top and the side, we added some details that you might not notice looking at it in one way. So all of those details combined are quietly bold. There are some pieces that are on the quiet side and some pieces that are more on the bold side. But what that really means is that it’s not ostentatious. It’s about designed, it’s not about blame or status but it’s still really high quality, you have to have a little bit of boldness to win it. You don’t have to be loud about your boldness, it’s that quiet confidence that I know that this piece is amazing. I feel great when I’m wearing it, I don’t need you to validate that for me, I don’t need you to call it out. I just feel great when I put this on and I’m doing it for me more than I’m doing it for you.

Laryssa Wirstiuk  22:59

You mentioned very briefly that you work with a small team of master jewellers in New York and you create each one of your pieces from the reclaimed and fair mined gold as well as the carefully chosen and responsibly sourced diamonds and gemstones. Have you always worked with responsibly sourced materials?

Dana Bronfman 23:24

Yes, it took me a lot of time to learn about that. When I first started, I was using recycled metals. And what I think a lot of people might don’t know is that gold has been being recycled forever because it’s valuable not really because of environmental reasons. I didn’t know that from the beginning, the majority of what you’ll find on the market is recycled gold but there are a lot of different levels, there’s not really a way to know where it originally came from. Recycled gold hasn’t gone through a process where it’s changed form. So sometimes they’ll be able to say the chain is recycled but because it didn’t come out of the ground as a chain. There’s basically always a lot of contamination that can go into that. So it goes into this thing like nothing is perfect. I became a fair mind licensee in 2016 and I didn’t start working with fair mined gold right away because I didn’t really figure out how to incorporate it, there is a premium on fair mined gold and what that means is that it is newly mined gold. All are made to the highest standard of ethics and sustainability in the mining industry. So I consider that they’re paid a premium for adhering to those standards. So that’s an incentive because these miners otherwise would be mining anyway because they need to feed their families, and it’s a source of livelihood for them. I consider that as a way to make mining more sustainable because we’re not going to stop people from mining gold because it’s so profitable. And if we just go to the recycle gold then we’re missing an opportunity, we might be inadvertently contributing to the more illegal and illicit mining that is done, that could be using mercury and toxic chemicals that do end up affecting us because they get into the air, stream, fish, we eat the fish and can travel in the errors we’ve seen with the pandemic, that what happens in another country does get to us here, even if we’re not immediately aware of it. So that was a roundabout answer. 

Yes, I do work with those materials, I still work with the recycled gold for the signature collection. That is to minimize the new gold that we’re taking but also for the Signet for the love collections, which is my Bridal Collection, and my one of a kind coloured stone pieces, basically all my coloured stone pieces. Those are done with fair mind gold and I do work a little bit with sterling silver as well. Don’t have access to the fair of mine silver as well because it’s not as I think that we haven’t figured out a way to create a market for it in the US, not that there’s a lot of knowledge in the consumer about fair mind versus recycled and what the difference between those two even or what the pros and cons are. I to be an opportunity to explain that to people when there’s a chance. I’m pretty choosy about who I work with, for my bridal line, I use vintage and antique diamonds. The idea is if I do a customized piece and somebody wants a modern brilliant, I will first try to find it in the antique or vintage. If I can’t, then we’ll have to meet the client where they are and give the client what they want.

Generally, I like to know where things are from, it’s not just the mining of the stones but it’s also the cutting and the polishing. I want to know where that was done and the conditions for that. I just tend to default to working with people who will be transparent and don’t mind having those conversations, a lot of old school people can get frustrated with those conversations, but a lot of people who don’t necessarily label themselves as ‘ethical or sustainable’, gem dealers are still doing a great job. They have been but we’re talking about working with materials that come from all over the world with deeply different cultures, things that are okay in certain places, like, child labourers. I’m not saying that I support it. But in some places, child labour might be the best option for a child because there’s no school forever away and nothing I support that. I’m just saying it’s complicated and that’s why not everything is perfect because it’s just complex.

Laryssa Wirstiuk  29:34

When you started leaning into the more responsible sourcing that there was a lot for you to learn. Would you say it was difficult to gain that knowledge also what resources did you turn to and how did you educate yourself?

Dana Bronfman 29:59

It was difficult because there’s a lot to learn, I’m still learning, and there’s still more to learn, I think both the research and the world are always changing. So things are always changing. So there are still going to be new things to learn and new things to apply and new ways to get better. But the first thing I did was join ethical metalsmiths. I reached out to other designers that I knew and who were through that and started connecting and people were great about sharing resources whether it’s gem dealer or answering any dilemma that you’re having. And what really is a great resource was the Chicago responsible jewellery conference. Before that, there was the jewellery industry Summit, which I am not 100% sure if that’s still happening, but that was great. I loved that was incorporating different levels of stakeholders and ethical matters messages, a lot of independent small designers, not really a lot of big companies. The jewellery industry summit was started by Facilitate Gardeners, she was the president of the jeweller’s Vigilance Committee. There were a lot of people from Signet and some of the Major traditional jewellery players that were learning and I learned a lot from that standpoint. The Chicago responsible jewellery conference is an amazing resource. I highly recommend anyone who’s listening to this, who has a curiosity, just go, hopefully, it will be happening this fall in person. It’s a great group of people. There’s so much knowledge that you’ll learn in that one week and maybe you never even wanted to learn because it’s a lot but it’s valuable information. It’s about constantly committing yourself to learn this, it’s not about having all the answers because no one has all the answers right now. 

Laryssa Wirstiuk  32:43

You mentioned the fair mind license and the ethical metalsmith. Are there any other organizations besides that you’re actively involved with or support in the industry?

Dana Bronfman 32:57

I would say not necessarily in the industry but there’s a great organization. One thing that people should definitely check out is the ‘ethical gems suppliers’. If you research that, then you will find some great people. One of the great projects through that is called ‘Maryo gems’. It is involved with an organization called ‘pact’, which works locally with miners and mining communities. I would say that’s an organization that’s peripheral to the industry but you will meet people from that. At the Chicago conference, there’s also an awesome organization called ‘Pure Earth’, which is cleaning up toxic pollution and the world’s poorest communities and they do a lot with lead and mercury. They have a ton of projects all over the world but not that are not necessarily related to jewellery but one of the projects that they work on is with gold miners. They have a program in the Peruvian Amazon where they’re training miners to mine without mercury and to do so responsibly. And to set things up for them and they are training them to be able to continue that after they’re not working with them anymore. They’re also helping them reforest the communities and training them in reforestation. So mining is a huge cause of deforestation which is very bad for the planet. But one way they can counteract that which of course doesn’t completely undo the harm because a beautiful tree that’s been there forever is not the same as a new sapling. So they are training them in the reforestation efforts. I donate a percentage of my sales to that organization. I think it’s important to not only vote with your dollars for the type of material that you want to support but to educate customers and the industry. And also put your money where your mouth is in terms of setting it up for the future and making things better and a bigger stance not just by talking about it but taking action.

Laryssa Wirstiuk  35:37

You already mentioned so many great resources but is there anything you do to stay at the forefront to know what’s coming next? 

Dana Bronfman 35:51

It’s a lot of talking to people to stay in touch. Ethical metalsmiths is probably a consistent community. There’s been some online ethical gems shown and showing up and staying abreast and talking to those people is one way. There’s the source which is the ethical metalsmiths blog. That is a good resource for people who are just looking for something to read and consistently get involved in but the ethical metalsmiths community is a great way to be grounded. And that another thing that I didn’t mention is that people want to get more involved in this and stay on top of things. Christina Miller was the founder of ethical metalsmiths and she now has her own consulting firm. She works with organizations and companies that want to basically get better and more sustainable ethical jewellery. She has a consulting firm, so hire her if you need some support for your company. She also does her living room sessions, where it’s like pay what you can or if you can’t, it’s Christina T. Millerconsulting.com and living room sessions. I think it’s about once a month, she has it on a Friday afternoon, she’ll have or I guess it’s noon on the east coast. So morning on the West Coast, a conversation where they’re talking about a different topic. So sometimes they’ll talk about gold mining, colour jams and talk about diamonds or ethics and how to make ethical decisions and different topics like that. So that’s a great way to stay involved. There are so many things to get involved in all the time. There’s also from a different standpoint, which is something that hasn’t gotten as involved in is the JVC (the jeweller’s vigilance committee) that’s more about legal issues, making sure that you’re doing things correctly in that aspect. There’s also the RJC (responsible jewellery council) that is really more for larger companies that don’t work so much for a smaller company but have at their resource for some larger companies. I find it hard to stay on top of everything because it’s just hard to do all the things while you’re trying to run a business. But there are definitely a lot of opportunities and these are all great places to start.

Laryssa Wirstiuk  39:17

There’s a lot of information. Because the amount of information feels overwhelming, I’m in awe of you and others who are leading this effort and keeping the conversation going.

Dana Bronfman 39:30

It is a lot and it can get super overwhelming and you have to pace yourself and got to do the best you can. I used to have a lot more anxiety about doing things perfectly and freaking out when it wasn’t but know that we’re living in an imperfect world and all you can do is do your best to try to be the best within that and try to make it better in the ways that you are capable of.

Laryssa Wirstiuk  39:59

You’ve stated several times that you dislike the terms “sustainable” and “ethical.” Were those the two you disliked?

Dana Bronfman 40:08

First of all, sustainable is anytime we’re making something, it’s not really sustainable. I cringe when I see people being like sustainable jewellery and I’m like, well, not really sustainable because, it’s still having an impact somehow and sometimes, an impact could be partially positive. I don’t like the word sustainable, because I feel like it’s dishonest, you’re still making something new. That’s using energy and materials. Even if you’re making things from 100% repurposed materials are still using energy. There’s gotta be something new that goes into that, whether you’re aware of it or not. If we weren’t perfectly sustainable, we would just be dead because we’re polluting the planet just by existing. So that’s the reason I don’t like to use that word because it just feels inappropriate for making a new product. 

Ethical is also been so overused, that they don’t mean anything anymore. People are like, but what does that mean? Ethical, I don’t like that it implies that, I’m ethical and you’re not, because it can be elitist in a way too because someone might be making an ethical decision, but it’s to the best of their ability within their means and what they’re capable of. And miners need to feed their families and I don’t like that perfectionism in it. I work with ‘Columbia gem house’, one thing that I love about them is that they work with minors all over the world on a system of continuous improvements, they have four different levels of fair trade. So they work to help bring people up to level one but they don’t just say, Oh, you’re not perfectly ethical, we’re not going to work with you. They work with them to try to bring them up. So that is definitely a company that I’d recommend checking out. that are go-to for coloured stones. 

Laryssa Wirstiuk  42:47

That’s so smart what you mentioned about the levels because I think one obstacle that keeps jewellery makers and designers from doing what you’re doing is taking the extra step, there’s a sense of perfectionism but if you look at it in this incremental way, it seems much more accessible.

Dana Bronfman 43:14

Do better than you did yesterday. That’s great and these things take time. It’s so important to have a community and people to ask, I definitely recommend checking out those resources. For example, fair-minded, they have ‘fair mind normal’ and then they have ‘fair mind eco’, which is they’re not using mercury, ‘fair mind normal’, they might be using mercury but only a tiny amount of it, when they need to and disposing of it properly, versus throwing it into the river. I mean not throwing the actual chemicals but they’re containing it responsibly and making sure that it’s put somewhere responsibly versus ‘fair mind eco’ is they’re not using it at all. They can’t have it at all to use that standard. I think there are different levels, you can’t just say you’re not perfect, we’re not going to help. There are also different levels, the craft codes, for example, which is something that ‘pact’ has been talking about, which is a lower level that people might not be able to adhere to the bare mind standard, but they might be able to get to adhere to this other level. I think nothing is black and white in this world and we’ve gotten into binary thinking. In our current times when things are produced to a tweet, but that’s not life is more complex than that. If you’re interested in this, it’s important to be interested in the grey area and move that aspect.

Laryssa Wirstiuk 45:11

As a marketer, I hate to blame marketing for some of this. But it’s also because consumers are overwhelmed. They need these easily digestible buzzwords to help them feel good about the decision they’re making. 

Dana Bronfman 45:30

Absolutely. When I discovered that about recycled gold, I was like, “Oh, my God, I’ve been disingenuous unintentionally.” I don’t like greenwashing, which is another reason I don’t like those terms. And so I say what is important to do is talk about not instead of using those words, just talk about the materials where they’re from, what you know about it, what you don’t know about it, and if you don’t know about it, I’m answering people’s questions. They are willing to bring up the topics, but people tend to be pretty trusting. I think trust is the most important thing that you have in business. You need to have the trust of your customers and I would never want to do anything to compromise that trust.

Laryssa Wirstiuk 46:28

Thanks for coming on the podcast. This was so much fun and I appreciate your time and knowledge and wisdom and for sharing it with us listeners. So many wise points. I loved learning from you today. Dana, what other new projects do you have on the horizon?

Dana Bronfman 46:44

I am doing a lot of trunk shows this year. I’m really excited to get back out there and meet with customers again. If you’re a retailer and want to work with me, feel free to shoot me a note. Feel free to follow me on Instagram and see what I’m up to. I’m going to be doing a new photoshoot this weekend for some new pieces. Check out the new Bridal Collection, It’s really exciting. Thank you so much for having me. It was great to chat with you.

Laryssa Wirstiuk  47:17

What did you think if you’d like to learn more about Dana Bronfman and her business? Visit DanaBronfman’s website or follow her on Instagram at Dana Bronfman. You can always email me, Laryssa, at joyjoya.com. If you love this podcast, please share it with a friend who’d appreciate it. And don’t forget to subscribe as well as leave a review on iTunes. To purchase a signed copy of my book “Jewellery Marketing Joy”, visit JoyJoya.com/book for all the information. Thanks for listening. Remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more information about working with Joy Joya, visit joyjoya.com, where you can sign up to download our free eBooks about various topics in jewellery marketing.